Requiem for a god
The apogee of the Christian Church in North America occurred during the 1950s and ‘60s. The pews were full. Everyone went to Church on Sunday – I played hockey for the Riverside United tykes in Weston, Ontario. The cars had fins. The drive-in movies were busy. The roller skaters served at the car window, and there was a sense of moral clarity where the good guys were good guys and the bad guys hadn’t become good guys yet. Vietnam was happening but distant. Jack, Bobby, and King all had had the assassin’s bullet, but we still believed in democracy and God. In Canada, Pierre Elliot Trudeau was our Bobby Kennedy, his sun rising against the setting sun of Pearson Liberalism and amidst the backdrop of Expo ‘67.
In Montreal, our cultural capital at the time, Expo ‘67 was called “Man and His World.” Indeed, “Man and his World” meant something different back then. There was optimism in the air despite revolutionary, cataclysmic change and revolutionary social forces that rippled under the surface of it all. The calmness and youthful energy of things meant that these changes, initially, seemed manageable and positive, if uncomfortable. The soundtrack of the era was the Beatles, a band that actually wrote songs with melodies and meaning with cartoon colors. The revolutionary pop culture guard that the Beatles were created music that you could sing along to at pubs. Not too scary.
Throughout this period, and earlier, in the ‘50s, there was serious scholarship occurring in the cultural shadows of religious studies. There were quiet whispers as Christian scholars started asking hard questions about their faith and the historical accuracy of the Old and New Testament. Powerful religious figures such as the young Charles Templeton actually left the pulpit in a sweat, depressed as he told Billy Graham and others that it was over – he just couldn’t do it anymore. Templeton had lost his faith. God no longer spoke to him, if he ever did.
There were a lot of religious men and women who progressively stared out into space as they sat with their morning coffees, their blank expressions reflecting the black void within. Modernism and post-modernism had caught up to the canons. And the canons were empty.
Today occurred part two of my discussion with author and United Church Minister Greta Vosper. Her book, “With or Without God: Why the Way We Live is More Important Than What We Believe,” essentially postulates that the declining attendance in mainstream churches has occurred because the public has caught up to the ‘50s-‘60s religious scholarship – the “abracadabra” nature of the Bible with its stories of miracles and magic and virgin births and blood sacrifices no longer washes.
Moreover, religious skepticism, religious aversion and cynicism are creating a polarization effect: non-believers, or diffuse Christians on one side who vaguely believe “in something” but who no longer attend Church, and religious literalists, fundamentalists and evangelicals on the other who fervently, and frothily, believe it all.
Gretta Vosper promotes a third way: looking at the question of how to live one’s life in the shadow of the Bible but within the light of secular truth and knowledge.
Is there a place for Christianity without a historical Jesus? Or without a Jesus who could perform miracles? Is there a place for ethics and morality and meaning without a God who casts thunderbolts?
God, Jesus, and the Church, are, according to Gretta Vosper, human constructions. We are the Church. Nothing is going to bail us out except ourselves.
The “Godliness within us,” and the moral and ethical responsibilities that go with it, are a greater burden than the expectation that we will be swept away by an extrinsic rapture.
Vosper’s deracination of the central tenets of the Christian faith, for many, transforms to a point where Christianity is not recognizable, where it ceases to become “Christian.” But, for many others, a great many others, there is no religious leadership or experience anyway: God is not dead. God is irrelevant, as important to an adult as Santa Claus is on Christmas Day when you have the Visa bills.
Yet, 80 per cent of us say in surveys that we believe there is something. Yet, that something is not urgent enough to bring us into the fellowship of communal worship, into Church.
Today we have a glut of aging, cynical baby boomers, fewer young people, and an even greater divide between the generations. The average father spends 30 minutes a day – sometimes per week – with his kids and half of that in front of the TV. There is increased youth violence, and an internet that spreads pornography far and wide to even younger people as well as pedophiles, increased sexualization of women – an almost numb pornogrification, and an entire generation of young people raised by entertainment and fashion industries.
There is a void. There is a lack of meaning. There are two parents working hard as hell and a world that makes less and less sense. More often than not, we have a culture that works against parents, against family, against each other. Statistically speaking, we all have even fewer friends than we did 15 years ago.
We are lonely, all together.
Going beyond the notion of Tom Harpur’s “The Pagan Christ” that the symbols and transcendent metaphors of the Bible can still feed us even if the literal stories are untrue, Gretta Vosper says there is a another way. Between abdication and abrogation of Christianity, and the literal evangelical fundamentalist, lies a third option: a sense of fellowship and a church still; the promulgation of values and meaning and life for its own beauty, for its own resonance, its own truth.
Gretta Vosper’s crystallized vision and testament is a revolution no less meaningful and probably more important than that of Martin Luther, all those years ago.
It is time religion in North America got real. But that, in itself, does not refute the light of your own belief path, whether it is fundamentalist or the darkness of nothing.
April 2nd, 2008 at 6:20 am
I think the biggest problem that most people have with Christianity, moreso than any other religion, is its evangelical component. I’m not sure where I read this, but the story goes that an Inuit man asked a missionary “If you had never come here and told me about God and Jesus, would I still go to hell?” The missionary said “No, of course not”. To which the Inuit mas said “Then why did you come?”
The simplest way anyone can live their life is by the Golden Rule, which will always be enough to meet the needs of any society. Do unto others as you would have them do unto you. There are not enough masochists to bring it down.
April 2nd, 2008 at 8:31 am
Andrew,
Good discussion yesterday…I was glued to the radio during the commentaries. I would like to ask some questions/and comments that I believe were overlooked and that can add to this discussion.
I am a young, married, educated and professionally employed father of two, who is in his late twenties. I used to think that the way a person lived was more important than what they believed. Then about 6 years ago, I personally went on a search for “truth”. I approached this from the thought of:
-why on earth are we here
-are we an accident
- have we evolved
- if there is a designer then who or what are they and what do they expect from us.
I was on a search for truth and where ever that lead or what ever the outcome, that was the direction I was going to apply to my life and my families life.
So I began my search…I researched and read a lot, asked lots of questions and made sure that my research would stand up to “life’s hard questions” and stand up to scrutiny. I did not have any biases that would skew my results in any way.
I personally came to the conclusion that there must be a designer. This place we called earth is very structured and elements of design are everywhere. If we look at the human body for example, I believe the design and structure alone displayed in the human body should be solid enough to testify to creation. Was it coincidence that we as humans live on a self sustaining earth, where we have resources that allow us to live and to have nourishment, and that it is has a temperature and climate sustainable for life!
So then I wanted to discover who or what God is. I was totally amazed with the evidence that we have for Christianity and the foundation for this faith is on solid ground. I don’t know of many people who will dispute the fact that a person named Jesus of Nazareth did exist. Historically, the fact that Jesus existed is unanimous and almost every faith will include that Jesus is exist. Historically, the evidence for the existance of Jesus is open and shut. The question of course is, was he the son of God and savior of mankind?
I could bore you for hours with theology (I’m far from a theologist) but I’ll just state a couple of observations that personally spoke to me.
#1. Either Jesus was who he said he was (Son of God and Savior to mankind) or he was a complete lunatic! Let that sink in for a second. Many people when asked the question “who is Jesus” will say…he was a good guy, a prophet, a messenger, moral teacher and umpteen different things. But the underlying fact is that everyone will testify that Jesus was a very moral teacher and a very ethical human being. On the flipside, Jesus said and proclaimed very strong things (ie: he was the son of God, the way…truth and life, the only way to the father in heaven was through himself and I could go on and on). So either he is who he says he is or he’s a lunatic, there is no middle ground. He would have definitely objected to the fact that the way we live is more important than what we believe.
#2. History continues to confirm the accuracy of the bible, bible writers and the resurrection as portrayed in history is solid. Again, we could spend days on this, but archaeology continues to confirm the bible. Archaeology does not confirm evolution. You would think that after years and years of evolution, that archaeology would have uncovered something.
#3. The existence of absolute right and wrong. There is without a doubt absolute right and wrong. If there wasn’t a God, where would right and wrong come from? Without absolute truth, who are we to say what or who is right and wrong?
#4 Liars make poor martyrs. Example, the disciples of the early church were in the position to know whether or not Jesus was who he said he was. If he wasn’t, their faith in him would be a lie and they would know it. Would a liar willingly die for something that he knew for a fact wasn’t true? Extremists today are will to die for something that they believe is true, but they don’t know for a fact. The early disciples were in a position to know for sure that Jesus was who he said he was.
Thanks again for provoking this discussion on your show. Craig Adams who is a well respected biblical scholar lives in Wolfville and teaches at Acadia University and would be a great person for you to interview on your show. I think that he would really add to this topic and would be able to clearly and concisely refute the arguments brought forth by Greta Vosper.
In closing, you mentioned yesterday that you questioned miracles this day in age. Have you ever seen the miracle of childbirth? Childbirth is definitely a modern miracle. You also questioned the virgin birth. We, this day in age could have a virgin birth (artificial insemination with a virgin lady). If God created the vast cosmos and everything within, I personally have no problem with His ability to create a virgin birth.
Thanks again for your show and the forum for which you allow listener to comment on your blog.
Respectfully,
Rob
April 2nd, 2008 at 9:07 am
No question Andrew that yesterday’s segment with Gretta Vosper was the best segment I have heard to date on your show. Before you get a swelled head though, let me add that it was quite a contrast to the first hour where you were begging for calls again, mostly unsuccessfully.
I admire the courage it must take Gretta to espouse the positions she does, especially her belief that the bible is not the word of God. However I am puzzled by her continued self identification as a Christian. How can she claim to be a Christian when she denies that Jesus was the son of God?
April 3rd, 2008 at 5:48 am
The chuch has problems, but changing the actual traditions and history of the church is not the solution. By doing that you’d just be creating a sect of christianity as the majority wouldnt want change (majority of christians).
Also its faith… even if you change it to be more realistic or in todays standards I dont think that would change anything (the decline of the church)…
I hope there is a after life but I have no faith or religious views. I view religion as conflict, an uncessary conflict. So I dont deal with the BS…
From my point of view, id say this minister is losing faith.
April 3rd, 2008 at 7:19 am
Rob, your comment demonstrates a lack of understanding of the basic aspects of the issues.
#1. The famous trilemma that Jesus was a liar, lunatic or Lord doesn’t take into account the fact that the Gospel of John, which is the only one that presents Jesus as claiming to be “I am” and the “Son of Man who came down from heaven”, cannot be regarded as presenting the actual words of Jesus. Its style is too uniform on the one hand, and too different from the other Gospels on the other.
#2. It is arguable that historical study cannot say anything about the resurrection. Extraordinary claims require extraordinary evidence. My guess is that your views on this subject are shaped by apologists like Josh McDowell who accept the claims of the Biblical writers uncritically and ignore historical questions. The evidence for evolution, on the other hand, is overwhelming, but here too apparently you’ve been listening to that fringe of crackpots with an axe to grind rather than the vast majority of scientists, including Christians, who actually know and study the relevant evidence.
#3. Here you are simply saying that it is useful for God to exist if one wants to avoid moral relativism (and personal responsability for one’s own moral decisions). I’ll grant that, but it certainly doesn’t prove anything.
#4. The willingness of the early Christians to die for their faith shows they didn’t simply make it up. They were persuaded Jesus was alive and their faith was true. Down the millenia plenty of others have given their lives for their faith, but it doesn’t prove that they had tangible evidence for the resurrection that was unavailable to others. It simply proves the power of their religious experience and convictions.
Your arguments, in short, might seem persuasive to someone who really wants to reach the conclusions you hold, or already holds them and merely wants to defend them. They have nothing to offer to anyone using the tools of historical study, academic Biblical study, biology, or any other field of knowledge relevant to the issues you mention.
One more thing. The term for what you are not is “theologian”, not “theologist”…
April 4th, 2008 at 5:58 am
Religion is pollution of the mind for those who have been for the most part indoctrinated at a young age or in other cases grown adults who have been educated in the public system. To be moral in life one must understand the power of the mind, one must understand objectivism, rational thought, logic, reason, and individual happiness. Objectivism is the key.
April 4th, 2008 at 7:52 pm
“Swelled head”, for doing my job?
I am expected to do something if you are taking the time to listen. As far as “begging for callers” is concerned, it is quite a mis-characterization.
When I have a guest, especially one as fascinating and controversial as Gretta, I am more than happy to just interview her. It is incumbent upon me however, to invite others to join in. As such, I have to give the numbers out and conduct a “reset”, letting people know if they have just tuned in who my guest is and what we are talking about.
You see, not everyone sits there, enraptured, enthralled, and listens to 2 hours of my show like you do and then takes the time to extend catty, uninformed comments in their self-appointed role as media critic.
Next time you think I need callers, why don’t you call if you have something to say instead of listening for extended periods and blogging me?
You’re obviously hooked. I promise to be nice. Should I beg you now? Or later?
April 5th, 2008 at 10:33 am
Gretta was a breath of fresh air.
Anyone who actually believes that the bible is “True” is suspect to me. I’m 30, educated, and have discovered that there is no easy way to get through this life. The day of my Confirmation in the Catholic Church was the last day I went to church. My social obligation was fulfilled. Waking up and making your way through the world is tough, and scary and not at all black and white. You have to actually THINK and find your place and your path. I realize that’s not for everyone. Some of us out there in the world don’t want to think their way through things. They want things to be easier. They want to be told what to do and how to think. That way they can live their McLives in McPeace. It’s not all their fault, we’re being conditioned from the time we’re born now to want the Mcjob, own the McCar with the McHouse, eat the McFood and watch the McTube. These people who don’t want to discover their own original thoughts cling to the bible. This piece of propaganda (And don’t kid yourselves, it is the most widely accepted piece of propaganda ever circulated.) lays out everything for you. If it was to be re-released in todays society it would marketed as “How to live, for Dummies” and have that tell tale yellow cover. Please don’t get me wrong, it’s a book that’s full of good stories with good morals that work as examples of how you could live your life. What people can’t seem to accept is that it is a STORY BOOK. Written by people trying to survive in a turbulent world, where there was little to no law and the survival of you and your family was never absolute. It was their best ideas they had at their time in history. Do we still farm the same way they farmed back in 10 AD? No. But why? They were the best methods they had at the time…. Instead we kept using our brains; we kept improving upon it, re-thinking things…. like a plough… maybe an ox to pull the plough… hmmmm? Do we fish the same? Do we travel the same? NO, we took what was best in those early ideas and we continued to work with them, improve them and make them relevant to the times that we live in. That is why I’m constantly blown away by the intellectual paralysis that has gripped religion. Really, and I do mean Really look at the church, the vaulted Papacy. This institution, this corporation, does NOT have your best interests at heart. “Outrageous!!” you yell. Turn off your TV, Open a book if you remember what one of those looks like, and read about this entity that you pay money, time and lip service to. Popes turning the Vatican into their own private brothel. Fathering illegitimate children that were quietly killed or exiled. Living their private live in the lap of luxury while having hundreds of thousands of their own followers killed in crusades so they can keep living in the style in which they’ve become accustom. When challenged they kill thousands more with their inquisitions. Many of these men are now considered Saints by their church!!!!! It was these power hungry corrupt men who cut and pasted the bible together…. PEOPLE don’t you get it! When these men MADE the bible they went through thousands of documents and put in what They wanted and left out and locked away what They didn’t want….. These men, these human men, these rich, well fed, sexually active, war hungry men put your book together for you…….. Once they had their propaganda prepared they weren’t happy with just that, they had to get it out to the “Heathens”. How many Natives across the world had to be abused, tortured and killed for the missionaries to get the FEAR of god into them? People, this isn’t hard information to find. But you’re not interested in that. It will interfere with your busy night of Burger King and American Idol. You hear someone like Gretta on the radio trying to shake you up and make you dust off your thinking cap and you revolt. You call in and try to tear her down…. why? Is it because she’s tearing at one of your foundations? A foundation that if not true to your understanding would make your life less easy and require some original thought? No of course not. You’re smart right? You’ve got the answers and it’s all figured out for you. Great. Good for you. From Jack London’s title character Wolf Larsen “Do you know, I sometimes catch myself wishing that I too were blind to the facts of life and only knew its fancies and illusions. They’re wrong, all wrong, of course, and contrary to reason; but in the face of them my reason tells me, wrong and most wrong, that to dream and live illusions gives greater delight. And after all, delight is the wage for living… and your dreams and unrealites are less disturbing to you and more gratifying than are my facts to me.”
The white power movement has lots of propaganda out there too. I loath the white power movement as much as I hold the church in contempt. But, if you; had no knowledge of their movement and the hate and fear that is behind it, you just read their books and took them at face value, you could think that they make a lot of sense too. You could believe what they have to say. If you; never bothered to actually use your reason, think about what they’re saying, look into the history of the organization, you could find yourself at a rally feeling like you belong, feeling all warm and fuzzy inside as you lit a cross on a visible minority’s front lawn. All I’m asking you and anyone I meet is to USE YOUR BRAIN. If I tell you the sky is brown and you’re too lazy to look up does that make the sky brown? It’s a scary world out here folks. But we’re all going through it together and at the best of times we still don’t know what we’re doing past 10 minutes from now. So just be nice to each other. It’s not a big request.
You fanatics on the right will no doubt have some sad and protectionist response. I only ask that you actually make it intellectual. If it’s just to say that I’m sad and lost and in need of guidance and you’ll pray for me… keep it. It fits better on you than it does on me. Sincerely though, thanks for your time, even if you don’t like what I had to say I still respect you as you are, and however you choose to find the way that works best for you.
Cheers.
April 10th, 2008 at 9:09 am
Just a correction from my post. I stated Craig Adams from Acadia University when I’ve should have stated Craig Evans…oops…my bad!
April 11th, 2008 at 3:30 pm
If someone doesn’t believe in God they’re atheist. If someone believes in someting but isn’t sure what they’re agnostic. If a Minister of a Christian Church, who is supposed to be a representative of Jesus Christ, says if there was a Jesus he wasn’t the Son of God they’re a false teacher… 2 Ti 4:3-5, 2 Pe 2:1-22.
She also said the Bible was a human construct. Scripture affirms itself… Lk 24:25-27, 2 Ti 3:15-17, 2 Pe 1:20-21. A Christian, or anyone else, can ask if this or that Bible story is literally true. If someone doesn’t believe that the Bible is the word of God they aren’t Christian.
April 15th, 2008 at 10:08 am
Quoting Andrew
“Next time you think I need callers, why don’t you call if you have something to say instead of listening for extended periods and blogging me?
You’re obviously hooked. I promise to be nice. Should I beg you now? Or later?”
Calling me an uninformed, catty, self appointed media critic is hardly the way to convince me that I should contribute to your show by calling in. What happenned to my “good ear for talk radio” that you once claimed I have?