Taser this
The recent “tasering” of a Dartmouth teen with no criminal record in her bedroom by three Police officers raises some interesting questions: the use of tasers by officers at all; the use of tasers as weapons of “compliance;” police frustration during the course of arrests; the expectations of citizens when it comes to the use of force.
The incident involving the Dartmouth teen went to court this week and the judge ruled that the Police conducted an illegal arrest, that there were no legal grounds, no one had been threatened, and there was no damage to property.
I have been told that some members of the Halifax police are furious with the judge and her ruling. The police claim that the media do not know all of the facts and that an appeal to this ruling is underway by police.
Today on my broadcast, I had the aunt of the tasered teen girl in question on the air with callers. She took on all comers, and never backed down once. Her voice was full of defiance and anger and outrage when she stated that she burst into the bedroom after her niece had been tasered, and was horrified. On the phone her voice trembled with emotion and her words sailed and hissed out of her. She told me that she was still boiling.
I suspect today that police officers were also calling in, giving just first names, and making their observations and criticisms directly to the girl’s Aunt. She derided, in clear, colorful street language, those officers who have an aversion to physical confrontation — “break a nail instead of using tasers.”
The whole thing began when the girl’s mother called the cops because her daughter wouldn’t leave the house after an argument. When the girl refused to leave, that’s when all hell broke loose. The aunt maintained on air that “you should be able to call the police without having to worry about that sh@#t happening. In fact, parents using force themselves on their teens can sometimes be charged. That’s what police are paid for: to do that which the citizen, legally, cannot.
Other callers said you should obey the police and if you kick at them when you are resisting arrest you deserve what you get. The problem, however, with that approach is that the taser can be deadly. Even a baton is easier on the heart than a taser.
I think we all know what happens with tasers. They are used because police are either unwilling to mix it up (the Vancouver airport), or they are afraid, or they have gotten hurt during an arrest and are angry and want to hurt back.
Go ahead, tell me differently.
We are all in trouble if two male officers and one female officer are afraid for their lives against an unarmed 17-year-old girl in her bedroom.
February 1st, 2008 at 2:02 pm
OK Andrew, I’ve had it! I can’t stand it anymore and I have to rant.
First of all, I was appalled and disgusted at this 17 year old’s aunt’s
conduct on your show the other day. And I guarantee you I’m not the only
one out here with this opinion…which is this. The aunt’s conduct
clearly displays to me that this child was raised in less than civilized
environment and make no friggin’ wonder the girl has no respect for the
law!? If the aunt will get on the air and behave as she did the other
day it speaks volumes. I understand she’s upset! And passionate about
this! But really, can you not behave better and set a better example for
the kids who look up to you than that!? The niece didn’t have a chance,
poor thing! And I fully agree with the caller who said that the aunt and
her sister are in the minority having to call the police on their
children. Most of us out here don’t get arrested or have to call the
police for domestic disputes. This whole taser debate is a symptom of a
bigger problem! Raise your kids to respect the law, respect their
parents, and be law-abiding people. I’m not saying don’t question
authority! Just do it in a proper manner. The apple didn’t fall far from
that family’s tree! The aunt was an embarrassing representative of her
family and if they elected her to speak publicly for them and she’s the
best they had? Then I feel bad for them. Finally, you said this morning
that if there were no tasers then we wouldn’t be having a debate right
now. Wrong Andrew. We would be having a debate and that would be why
didn’t the police use more force with this out of control teen before
she caused a police officer to lose an eye or some teeth! YES, police
officers sign on for this but you’re wrong when you say “suck it up,
it’s part of the job”…they have every right to try to minimize the
risk to them. And I guarantee you this, if I was in their situation and
faced with a hallway full of irate relatives and friends I’d be
concerned for my safety too! Having said all this, I don’t agree with
their use of the taser in this instance BUT the solution is NOT to ban
it, perhaps put in place some far more stringent restrictions, ie:
training, etc. Listen, you call the cops on your out of control teen and
you take your chances. If a cop tells you to stand down, STAND DOWN!
There! I feel better now.
Kimberly M
Herring Cove
February 1st, 2008 at 4:20 pm
Could not agree more… great post!
February 1st, 2008 at 4:32 pm
the people who complain about the use of excessive force are the same ones who complain about the police not doing enough about delinquent youth. I don’t get it, the mother called the police to remove her daughter from the house, and when they did, the family complain and whine about it. what were the cops supposed to do, show up with lollipops and cotton candy? I heard the “aunt” on your show, and by the way she spoke about the police she should have been zapped too. Just another example of society having to deal with dysfunctional famalies and their problems.
February 1st, 2008 at 5:32 pm
Dear Andrew,
What the hell is wrong with you?
I am continuously baffled by your opinion on the taser debate. Why do you insist on siding with the criminals? My dad had been a member of the RCMP for the past 30 years and is now one of Canada’s top cops. Does this mean that he has less right to come home at night than me or you or the local postal carrier? The best way to prevent a physical altercation is through intimidation. Bleeding hearts like you want to remove all methods of intimidation so that today’s youth has no respect for law enforcement agents. In my opinion, if 3 cops roll up on you and tell you to sit down….SIT THE HELL DOWN!!! If you have done nothing wrong you will have nothing to fear and you will be sent on your way.
You continuously compare the dangers faced by firefighters to those faced by cops however I know that you would never send a firefighter into a burning building without a hose or protective clothing. The taser is essential to the safety of the law enforcement agent. It is a tool of intimidation, self-defense and yes, even compliance. I agree that some professions have more inherent danger than others but we need to maximize our efforts to minimize that risk of injury. A truck driver has a seatbelt, a carpenter has a hardhat, a cop has a taser. When one enters the profession of law enforcement it is not to put his or her life in danger but rather to make your life safer.
I find it so ironic (moronic) that you flip flop between the taser debate and the story of KFC refusing to deliver into violent parts of town. The delivery dude is terrified to deliver a bucket of chicken yet you wish to send my dad as his employees into these same neighborhoods to defuse crimes already in progress? Give your head a shake brother. Guess who will be there to protect the delivery guy should he be robbed or worse? The answer is my dad and his brave men and women…with or without tasers and with or without a regard for their own security.
You are starting to sound as ignorant as that rocket scientist ‘aunt’ you had on your show this week. You are doing a huge disservice to all members of law enforcement and all law abiding citizens by giving a voice to morons like that lady. The cops should have zapped her and her sister on the way out the door for poor parenting skills.
I am a long time listener and a loyal fan but I need a break from your show. I owe it to my father for all the blood and sweat that he has shed in the name of keeping the peace for you and me and everyone else.
Thank you dad and thank you every law enforcement agent. You are all heroes.
Ben
February 1st, 2008 at 8:02 pm
I’m all for keeping “Tasers” in the arsenal, but the people carrying them are the ones who have to be convinced of their potential lethality.
Obviously police departments and other forms of law enforcement are looking for more compelling evidence than Robert Dziekanski and our own Howard Hyde. You only need to google “Taser deaths” to see you can connect to almost 63,000 pages on the subject from numerous countries and sources.
Anybody who could plant one of these weapons against the skin of an extremely agitated 17-year-old girl and pull the trigger is either completely oblivious to the tragic possibilities or retaliating out of their own extreme agitation.
February 2nd, 2008 at 8:53 am
I am divided on this issue. While I do agree that there have been far too many instances where a group of three to four officers have unnecessarily used the Tasers (this incident and the Vancouver airport), I do believe there are times when the Tasers are necessary. For example, if one officer had responded to this call, the Taser might have been necessary. But, I do think that Tasers and their use have to be reviewed so that we don’t have another death on our hands.
Having said that, this girl’s aunt has to realize that when you call the police on a family member, no matter what happens it won’t be a pleasant experience. I doubt they thought the police would bring milk and cookies to try and lure her out of the house. The mother wanted the girl out, which is her right, and she called the police to make that happen, which they did. I don’t think it’s right to question the manner in which they did it, as long as they didn’t beat her or shoot her.
I know this won’t be a popular point of view, but I needed to say these things.
February 2nd, 2008 at 3:01 pm
I agree that the Taser was never intended to be used as a compliance tool.
May be it’s like the Staples ad slogan “Just use the EASY Button.
I listened to the aunt of the girl tasered until she got to the part that if her niece died then the policeman should die too.
It may say in the Bible “An Eye for an Eye” but that does not reflect our system of Law and Order in this country.
Personally, I think there should be a ‘Memoratorium’ on Taser use until laws are in place as to when to and when not to use a Taser.
February 2nd, 2008 at 5:00 pm
Andrew,
First of all, I enjoy your program. This one however caused some concern over the portrayal of the police officers responding to a domestic dispute. I was not impressed by the statements made by the aunt of the teenage girl, and lead me to formulate the opinion that the whole family appear to have some “issues.” The use of “reasonable” force is of prime concern. Tasers may not be the first best option to neutralize a unruly individual, but I refer you to the case in New York recently where an off-duty police officer was killed by fellow officers as he tried to apprehend a criminal. He had drawn his weapon and was shot by the other officers from another department. I also can not help thinking of Sgt. Derek Burkholder (RCMP) who was killed during an intervention in a domestic dispute! How much caution should a police officer place on his/her own safety?
February 3rd, 2008 at 6:27 am
Discipline begins at home…if you can’t control your own children, why should someone else even attempt to?
Where was this child’s father? This society is out of control.
February 3rd, 2008 at 1:02 pm
Most of us want our military personnel to have the best training, supplies and equipment available. Most of us appreciate and are grateful for the freedom that has been achieved over the years — to live in Canada without fear of external domination or occupation by a foreign country. In the villages, towns and cities of our country, there are internal threats to our freedom by local organized crime rings, street gangs, drug dealers, swarmers, muggers, thieves, rapists, con artists, murders, domestic abusers etc. Our police services people see on a daily basis the best of us at our worst and the worst of us at our worst. Our freedom of internal threats in our home communities is as important as our national freedom from external threats — freedom to walk down the street or in a public park without being accosted, for example. Halifax has the highest violent crime rate in Canada and it is twice the national average of the U.S. rate. Our police services personnel are also entitled to have the best training, supplies and equipment available to protect them from bodily harm or death. Maybe the Tasers need to be improved, I don’t know? But let’s give these people who risk their lives for our freedom in our community on a daily basis our appreciation and gratitude. These people are not involved in politics. They are only trying to do the best job that they can given the training, supplies and equipment that has been provided to them, and they deserve our respect and support. They are not the criminals.
Thanks for your program on News 95.7
February 4th, 2008 at 6:42 am
Andrew, on the Taser issue I am scared to death. Many of the reported deaths involving tasers show that the victim had mental problems or a chemical imbalance. Does anyone really know what 50,000 volts of electricity does to the brain?
If you have ever taken Jr. High science you know that emulsions can be changed by adding an electric charge. How do we know that Tasering won’t kill 90 per cent of people with mental disabilities? We don’t.
I have a chemical imbalance and I am scared for myself and anyone else who gets tasered. But, when a cop or three cops can go into a young girl’s bedroom and Taser her, more than once I see that anyone, absolutely anyone can be Tasered by police.
The taser is too dangerous. How many people are at risk here? What are the real dangers?
February 4th, 2008 at 8:40 am
I have to agree with the people above.
No one will truely know what happened in that woman’s bedroom. If reports are to believed the officers involved feared for the safety, so they had every right to use whatever force necessary to diffuse the situation.
They did use the Taser, and the young lady is absolutely fine. These tasers are not nearly as deadly as people would believe. How many deaths have been attributed to Taser use? Of the 16 investigated in Canada…none of the deaths were caused by the taser…after a completed inquest. In fairness, one investigation remains to be completed…the incident that made every newspaper headline that occurred in BC. Sixteen deaths investigated…how many times has the Taser been used in Canada since its introduction?
I support officers using the taser over “old school” methods. A broken arm, wrist, leg or concussion would have been viewed as police brutality much more so than the Taser use.
February 7th, 2008 at 6:41 pm
I believe there is a place for the taser in modern policing practice. I am tired of listening to the likes of the girl’s aunt who was on your show. It just served as confirmation to me of the “kind” of people our police have to deal with on a daily basis. My bet is on the aunt getting tasered at some point in the future aswell. People reap what they sow, bottomline, if you don’t want to be tasered - don’t act like an ass.
February 11th, 2008 at 8:39 am
I totally agree with Kim M. People have no respect for the law, elderly, or other people for that matter. Society is gone to hell in a hand basket. Luckily, these people are of the minority, but the rest of us have to look after them because they can’t look after themselves or their kids. Until you’re in a situation where you see how out of control some kids can get, or adults for that matter, against lawful authority, there’s no doubt in my mind that the use of a taser was warranted. There should be a law, that if you’re kid gets in trouble with the law, the parents should have to go to jail along with their kid for the crime that was committed. Canada should also lower the age for the youth criminal act to under 12. 12 and above should be consider as an adult. For those of you with kids above 11, like I do, can understand just how intelligent they really are. Police do sign up to uphold the law. But after a couple of years on the job,with all the abuse they take (spit at, shot at, knife attacks, punched, scratched, hair pulled, eyes gouged, objects thrown at you) from men,women, and kids, you can understand why they might be a little on edge in certain situations. They have a family and kids that they would love to come home to after their shift.
February 12th, 2008 at 9:05 am
Touch tasing is very much different than firing a taser’s barbs into someone, creating 2 points of contact and pushing 50,000 volts between these 2 points. Touch tasing is as simple as giving somebody a shock. I suppose they could have used knee strikes.
This judges ruling is absolutely ridiculous. What is she saying? It is legal to fight the police physically if you feel you are being treated unfairly?
February 19th, 2008 at 7:14 am
Are cops shrinking?
They must be since they need more and more protection against out-of-control teens who , by the way are growing, don’t cha know.